Actually, for the purposes of this example, they haven't walked in yet, but they can peek through the window unseen.
First Guy
GM 1: The bar is completely empty except for the bartender who is behind the bar, looking at the door, holding a shotgun.
Player 1: Ok, I got Sneak at 25% so I'm going to Sneak in and (roll r...)
GM 1: Hold it hold it hold it. The room is empty, the bartender is looking straight at the door. There's no way you can just sneak in there normally.
Player1: Ok, I'm going to set a trashcan on fire out on the street, then when the bartender comes out to investigate, sneak in.
GM 1: Ok, the trash can is on fire. The bartender (roll roll) does indeed go out to investigate after about a minute...roll to sneak...
Player1: Did it!
GM 1: Alright, you're in. And outside there's a trashcan fire. It's (roll roll) actually kinda getting out of control.
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Second Guy
First Guy
GM 1: The bar is completely empty except for the bartender who is behind the bar, looking at the door, holding a shotgun.
Player 1: Ok, I got Sneak at 25% so I'm going to Sneak in and (roll r...)
GM 1: Hold it hold it hold it. The room is empty, the bartender is looking straight at the door. There's no way you can just sneak in there normally.
Player1: Ok, I'm going to set a trashcan on fire out on the street, then when the bartender comes out to investigate, sneak in.
GM 1: Ok, the trash can is on fire. The bartender (roll roll) does indeed go out to investigate after about a minute...roll to sneak...
Player1: Did it!
GM 1: Alright, you're in. And outside there's a trashcan fire. It's (roll roll) actually kinda getting out of control.
_
Second Guy
GM 2: The bar is completely empty except for the bartender who is behind the bar, looking at the door, holding a shotgun.
Player 2: Ok, I got Sneak at 25% so I'm going to Sneak in and (roll roll). Did it!
GM 2: Alright, you're in. Now the room was empty and the bartender was looking straight at the door. How'd you do it?
Player2: Mmmm...I guess I set a trashcan on fire out on the street, then when the bartender comes out to investigate, I snuck in.
GM 2: Ok. So she's out there and outside there's a trashcan fire. It's (roll roll) actually kinda getting out of control.
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Some games work one way, some work the other way, some work both.
In D&D, for instance, a to-hit roll can work either way. You can describe exactly what you hope to do in an ambush, set it up, get modifiers, then roll it and then, bing, it goes off or (typically) you roll to hit an unlikely target and it works anyway because you rolled high and the GM or player then explains how it happened.
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The 2 games above (and/or people playing them) look at the Sneak number on their character sheet in different ways.
GM 1 sees the Sneak number as representing how often the PC can sneak under typical conditions in the fiction.
GM 2 sees the Sneak number as representing how often the player gets to say "My character sneaks" and have that happen in the fiction.
GM 1 sees the Sneak number as a measure of PC aptitude.
GM 2 sees the Sneak number as a measure of direct player control over the fiction.
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Both fictional situations are equally realistic (the same thing happens in both fictions).
Both fictional situations required the same amount of creativity (the same things were invented).
Both groups are visualizing the situation in the same amount of detail. (This is an ability distinct from just creativity.)
There is a difference though:
Player 1 is playing a game where she stakes her PC's life (that is, her right to play the game with that PC) on that creativity and that ability to visualize the situation in detail, plus an in-game decision (go in sneaking) plus a 25% die roll gamble.
Player 2 is playing a game where she stakes her PC's life solely an in-game decision (go in sneaking) plus a 25% die roll gamble. The creativity and ability to visualize are there, but they are not gambled on.
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(Player 1 is, also, staking her PC's life on her ability to communicate effectively with the GM. I've heard of adults having serious problems with this in their games--I've never seen it happen in real life.)
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A big question in game design is, largely, what, if anything, do your players want to be gamblng their players lives on?
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